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Dual interview: presentation skills, pitch decks, and webinars -- catching up with Greg Rosner, CEO of PitchKitchen

February 12 2018 / by Roger Courville

Filed under: Expert Interviews, Presentation Design, Presentation Planning, Storytelling

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What happens when two presentation experts interview each other back to back?

A dynamic discussion that evolves from presenting virtually (webinars, webcasts) to telling the killer story in a pitch!

Join Greg Rosner, CEO of PitchKitchen and Roger Courville, Chief Aha! Guy of EventBuilder as they uncover one practical nugget of wisdom after another in back-to-back interviews.




Transcript (auto-generated, unedited)

hey man hey Greg
happy snowy January yeah yes I was
saying like you know just to see a
little peak there's the bombuh Genesis
behind me thanks here in New York and
yeah it's pretty awesome
mild and maybe thirty nine today in
Portland Oregon and I'm Leben eight hey
we're going to talk about presentations
though that's some some good stuff let's
do it
yeah as two of us who like I feel like
we're meeting in this virtual OK Corral
you know I'm on one end of the country
you're on the other but we're meeting
here in the center as two guys two
gunslingers and what are we slinging but
just a passion and a love for great
presentations so let's see what we got
let's do it alright so why don't we
start why don't I start with my Six Gun
here and I'm gonna you know ask you a
question so I know that you know what
event builder is about I know that you
guys handle the back-office production
of webinars webinar programs but tell me
like webinars been around for a long
time you know so what what about
webinars were so 2017 as now we're in
2018 so what's so 2017 about webinar so
so 2017 yeah well you know I feel like
I've been around for a long time because
I started the business literally
eighteen and a half years ago but I'll
tell you what I think is is we're no
longer out there trying to prove to
people what the business value
proposition is of where a virtual
presentation fits into your mix of of
tactics that you can go to market with I
think I think the thing that I that is
still completely underutilized or under
underappreciated is the fact that the
the medium is different than the purpose
or the intent right and you can use
GoToMeeting or Skype for business or
whatever zoom or whatever tool you want
to use to meet to train to do a keynote
to have a class to have a seminar and
and each of those communication types
evolves a little bit based on the nature
of how you're gonna connect and
communicate and yet we often see
webinars only happen one way which is
hello and welcome to today's webinar and
forty-five minutes later than maybe they
take a little Q&A; at the end instead of
going wait a minute no that's we
wouldn't open up Microsoft Word and
think there's only one way to write why
do we open up GoToWebinar and think
there's only one way to present that's
that's so 2017 well that's interesting
you say that like even in PowerPoint you
open up PowerPoint it says click to add
title and clicked add subtitle and that
very structure forces people to create
awful presentation but you know that is
exactly right yes exactly though yeah
the whole normal view in PowerPoint that
goes hey it's normal
just to have words and outlines and
bullet points it's just just a misnomer
so so what what would you say like you
know that hello welcome to the webinar I
mean tell me about what structured like
doesn't like that doesn't work anymore
what doesn't work anymore you know what
I wouldn't even say there's a time and a
place but here's here's lit I'm if
you're in our listening audience today
grab your pencil I'm gonna give you my
three-step plan that that is how I do
individual coaching up to working with
fortune 500 instructional design firm
instructional design teams analyze map
discover what I always start with is
tell me what you do in person before we
talk about making your presentation
online I want to know who your audience
is how would you normally connect and
interact how do you walk on stage do you
get introduced do you hand out handouts
when you hand out handouts do you do
that at the beginning of the class do
you do it part of the way through the
class do you do how do you handle formal
versus informal interactions formal
being I know that when I get to this
place in the presentation I always ask
this question or have the audience do
this exercise informal is Greg just
raised his hand part of the way through
the thing or just shouted out a question
and what what do I do about that
right inverse must people in person Greg
says hey but and throws out a question
most of the time my response in person
would be to acknowledge
Gregg and say yes you answer the
question or say I'm gonna cover that in
a later part of the presentation can we
do that or that's completely off-topic
and we would you catch me after after
the break right that's that's what
normal human beings do in conversations
and in presentations right not we
wouldn't you know if great-aunts asked a
question in the typical webinar you
wouldn't ignore you wouldn't ignore
Gregg for 30 minutes and then take the
question at the end right that's that's
not normal but somehow we normalize that
so I start with analyzing what do you do
in person and then how do we map that to
the set of the tools that we have
typically that's your interactions your
transitions between speakers how do we
get in and out and how do we do those
things that we would do in person but
how do we adapt that to a new medium
right the medium theory or transmission
theory of communication is that that the
medium adapts it transforms how we
connect and communicate so some
platforms have been more robust sets of
tools some don't have as much many
different options the question is how do
we map to the set of tools that we have
and then the third is to then discover
sociologically we notice what we lose
before we notice what we gain and if I
had a nickel for every time somebody
goes yeah webinars are alright but I'd
rather be there in person I'd be you and
I'd be on a yacht somewhere and you'd be
with me but so because every time we
move into a new medium there are some
advantages to the new medium and it's
not just distance between New York City
and Portland Oregon it's it's different
ways we can connect and interact analyze
map discover there are some new things
that will help you connect communicate
and be more impactful and that's my
simple process for how I take people you
know to say how do we even approach this
subject of webinars all right now so
what I'm getting from all that is that
like what was 2017 is that people are
still forced their thing rather than
looking at what they was do in real life
and trying to get the tools to do that
right that's coming more modern more
2018 and yep
well and you know here's the thing some
part of that is totally
obvious and I've worked with a lot of
executives in it and then they come back
you go oh yeah that makes sense
which is if I told a story in a book and
then I tell a story in a movie I
realized that it could be the same story
to the same audience and it's a
different discipline for how I
communicate that through that particular
medium it's less obvious when I think
that I'm just gonna talk over PowerPoint
right and so the the other challenges
that we have webinar companies
conferencing platforms out there
perpetuating bad practice don't want to
throw anybody under the bus but it's
virtually every one of them steps up and
goes this is how you do a webinar
introduction at the beginning and then
you come in and do 45 minutes of
presentation content and then Q&A; at the
end and nobody does that in real life
except in the context of a keynote and
unless you're trying to mimic doing a
keynote presentation most of the time
there's some form of human connection
that is just getting missed and it's it
doesn't it doesn't have to be that way
yeah Chino's or a TED talk everyone who
comes to me said oh we want to make our
talk like a TED talk I'm like no you
don't yeah as a guy who did a TED talk
in the Cayman Islands yes it's very
different that's not the normal way of
communicating that talk is a performance
in fact I was lucky my wife got us
tickets to Hamilton and we saw Hamilton
just last night in New York City and it
was an amazing performance it was
I was crying everyone was trying it was
wonderful but it was a performance it
wasn't a b2b presentation and I think a
lot of people are enamored by how
beautiful these performances are either
on the Ted stage or on a New York
Broadway show stage yeah that's not
business no that's not a webinar that's
not a presentation well and it has its
place but that's the point if there's
not a one way to give a presentation
just like there's one not one way to
write something on a piece of paper and
there's not one way to do a webinar so
Roger you helped a lot of people do this
through this stuff what do you see is
like the biggest hurdle that people are
facing a deal with that you help them
with what's rises to the top it's like
the biggest deal bigger oh well you know
thanks Greg I mean it's I think it was
probably implied though not explicit in
in that little analyzed map adapt most
people notice what they lose right
and they get wrapped up in the mechanics
as in oh are you alright isn't it is
this thing on
are you hearing me right and or how do I
change my slide or what's you know what
they're worried about the mechanics
instead of getting past the mechanics to
say how do I connect and communicate
with people because I mean it's like a
telephone we don't fact I've asked
groups of CEOs as I said how many of you
does customer service training and when
you teach people at you know how to do
customer service over the telephone you
teach them how to forward a phone call
and then stop no actually great customer
service has nothing to do with how to
operate the telephone I know I need to
know how to operate the telephone but
that's not where connection happens
right and so if there's the biggest
mistake it's thinking about the
technology and thinking about how the
connection works because especially and
slight self-interest here people can
help you with the technology right
that's like that's like the the band
manager who goes and manages the
backstage crew to make sure that the
lights are on and the amps are plugged
in and you're the rock star and you step
out on a stage if you don't want to do
all that yourself
you somebody else can handle the stage
grass stage for you so you can step up
and do your thing well it's not just the
speakers that deal with that it's like
the people that come to webinars they're
like oh I can't see the screen or your
screen is frozen or I can't I can't like
what's the email just will I get a
recording of this and it's like your job
is not to help people like with their
stuff with our IT you're not like their
IT person so you see some people spend a
lot of time not delivering content value
but fixing IT issues yeah well yes but
let's put it in let's keep it in context
if you had an in-person program at the
local Convention Center and there were
gonna be 500 people show up somebody
overslept couldn't figure out how to pay
their train ticket to take the train
into town or something right
and and to use that analogy and webinars
that's kind of like saying wait a minute
if you haven't figured out in advance
how to make sure that you could don't
oversleep or or catch the train into
town on time I can't exactly be
responsible for you that especially now
that I'm on stage right here's why that
seems big to us that seems big to us
because what we want everybody to be
happy right and if there's one person in
five hundred it goes I can't hear I the
slides are frozen or right I mean you
have no idea they could have you know
they could be three gerbils short of a
good internet connection and and the
other 499 people are doing great and you
I see yeah so I mean certainly that's
having somebody ride shotgun with you
who can do that troubleshooting but
here's what I know from being in the
industry for eighteen years not only
working for the technology companies
from start up to Microsoft but then also
being a consultant back for until I
joined event builder a year ago for ten
years I was speaking training coaching
consulting consulting to and for Adobe
and GoToWebinar in these companies so
I'm I'm familiar under NDA with our
metrics the number of technical issues
is really small relative to the vast
majority of connections and minutes that
people are having radically successful
successful experiences right and it'd be
no different than if you commute to the
office the same route the same time and
I know it takes me exactly 19 and a half
minutes to get from door to door from my
house to my office but occasionally
something happens and it didn't take me
19 and a half minutes right and we
anyway yes we throw we throw webinars
under the bus here's also what we know
technologically most of the time and I
mean the vast majority of time technical
problems are at the local end-user
perspective and most of the time it's
their own internet connection or their
own out-of-date browser or something
like that so you know the Internet's
more reliable in terms of getting signal
from port
Oregon to New York City to Sydney
Australia it's it's more reliable to go
that long distance than it is to go from
your local internet service provider to
your desktop right more often than not
it's not go to webinars problem it's
your problem yeah so like next questions
here so if you're producing an event
that you've got 300 people showing up to
in a visible room and you're on stage
for that presentation there's a lot of
ingredients that make that event
successful a lot of people you know from
that person that escort people and
checks tickets to the person to make
sure that the projector works right with
a webinar the promise is that it's a lot
easier because you've got this
technology at everyone's fingertips but
is it like what are the ingredients that
you need to ensure that you know shit's
not gonna go left you know left right
yeah exactly hit the fan yeah yeah well
a good part of that is exception
management knowing what to do not
knowing what you know there's no problem
when everything was right it's always
it's just something when something goes
wrong the first is to start with a
professional tool and God love them but
Skype is not it right we're just using
this because you and I are having a
conversation and and making a recording
Skype for business is radically it's
entirely different right you'd you know
most people don't even realize that
Skype for business which is free in
office 365 so if you're subscribing to
Microsoft Office online now you get
Skype for business for free so whether
it's Skype for business or zoom or
GoToWebinar or WebEx or Adobe Connect er
or one of literally 150 other tools a
professional tool is that has not only
more features for connecting and
interacting but for managing and in
troubleshooting one of the biggest
challenges with the the quote unquote
moving parts is treating an event the
same as a meeting right people tend to
use like yeah I'll use go to meeting day
in and day out for these little meetings
we show up on you know we show up right
at the top of the hour
it's no big deal if Greg's two minutes
late and blah blah blah right but that's
if in the offline equivalent is hey we
show up to a conference room and Greg
two minutes late no big deal we do roll
with it but when we're having an event
like you say and there's 300 people
showing up I've got somebody out there
who who forgot to do something on their
computer or their internet connections
having a bad hair day or something like
that and we need to be prepared not to
to show them how to get in the door
sometimes that's showing them how to
connect and interact most audiences
figured out how to connect interacting
in webinars some audiences don't write
depends on your demographic and they're
not they're not as familiar with how we
connect and interact on Facebook so like
my mother and father joining like what
do these demographics yeah well yes so
I'll be careful with saying that's so
solely an age based demographic though
generally that is more true right but
some industries spend a lot less time
developing their native digital skills
right so for instance one of our clients
is a large medical firm and their
audience is nurses well nurses don't
spend eight hours a day in front of a
computer like you and I do they spend
eight hours a day taking care of people
and so they're it's not quite as natural
for them to go oh that's how I chat or
question in - Gregg - you know because
I've got a question about something that
he just said so there are times when
part of the process you build in might
be guiding people's experience to be
more effective as audience members so
they get more out of the experience so
there's some knowledge that's ingredient
not even when you're in a room with 300
people for example seeing other people's
questions that they're thinking about
while the presentation is going on yeah
- feature that's only available because
of technology for example so are there
other ingredients that take that you've
seen that really make magic happen with
webinars in particular that are not even
possible because in in us in a room with
300 people yeah well you just pointed
out a great one and let me riff off of
that that exactly example if you are a
trainer and you were gonna do a half a
day training class
and you know to 15 people you you might
kick things off by saying go around the
room and everybody tell me your name and
what's your role in the organization and
you know what do you want to learn today
before I get into the training content
and if 15 or 20 people took one minute
each you just consume 15 or 20 minutes
of your you're half a day right if you
do that online to your point and
everybody just went to a little chat box
and typed it in now it's simultaneous
instead of sequential in person I could
only have one person talking to the time
right now we have a combination of those
opportunities online they could all type
it in at the same time and now it's
sequential and it only takes one minute
instead of 20 minutes and I just
recovered 19 minutes of my of my
training time what am I going to do with
that in a bigger of in a bigger event
one of the things that I've I've seen
happen I won't mention the vendor
because this will kind of throw them
would throw them under the last I'm
doing a webinar I'm the keynote speaker
for a big webinar for one of the
conferencing vendors and I said I want
to open up chat so everybody can chat
just like what you just described where
everybody can see see that stuff and
they're like oh really you want to do
that like bring it on Lucas I'm the
unflushable presenter let's just do it
so we get to the end and here's
something that I saw happen that my my
client then commented on which was Karen
asks a question Julie responds in and
answers Karen's question before Roger
got around to my next pause where I did
audience interaction and therefore there
was this peer-to-peer
level engagement which was happening
online by the way which is a whole lot
easier when different that's a good
example if I'm transformed online as it
was to off right in person I could lean
to the point to my left to run but I
wouldn't be connecting with community
with all 300 people yeah it couldn't
happen in the same way yeah man so
technology 20:18 things are changing and
it's awesome and I'm excited I've seen
what what what magic I call it magic
when you're in a virtual
with people and you really feel like
you're in the same room with them
because of the conversation and the
comments and the questions it's really
it's awesome so I'm excited about the
so gunslinger what what do you got for
me what questions yeah for me man you
know that's a good let me do with turn
down your audio just a smidge I'm
getting a little bit of feedback there
just a little bit perfect well no you
actually just mentioned something that
I've seen you speak about on your
website which is approaching
presentations conversationally and a
little bit earlier we touched on on the
you know the white ed isn't necessarily
the perfect thing for everybody but let
me hit the ball over into your court
because that's that's your specialty
why approach presentations
conversationally yeah so things have
really changed I think when I was in the
hyrum one of my Jobs was to count words
on a paper with a clicker thumb clicker
so we could calculate the cost for
translation and in the late 90s it still
was a time when information was really
not free not everywhere and trapped in
people's heads and when you went to a
presentation it was top-down it was very
much you have information we need to
understand that information you know
bring it on
but you know the reality today and going
forward you know information is
everywhere just ask Alexa Alexa are you
you know let's see what she says I think
that's because of the storm or something
but the point is information is is out
there and answers are cheap answers are
everywhere just ask Alexa and when she's
connected to the Internet ask yes she is
or ask Siri and so the point is that
people come to your presentation already
have done the research they understand a
lot about what you're presenting what
your topic is even if you're selling a
service is all this information already
available so they come with questions
typically and so if you don't come to
that meeting with the mindset of filling
that gap of what they want to find out
what's most important to them what
they're trying to accomplish if you come
to that session with please sit down and
watch my 73 slide PowerPoint that I've
worked so hard to show you I guarantee
you it's not gonna be a good
presentation oh and can I apologize to
begin with for this very small small
font size that's on this first slide
well that's just it
the reason why there's small font on
those slides is because people think
that they eat Burke Smith everything
that's on the slides because they still
think that the slide is something that
needs to be as information that needs to
be delivered and emailed and sent to
someone which by the way if you can
create a presentation with all this
perfect information wordsmith perfectly
and email it to 500 prospects and they
all can basically buy and like oh yeah
this is awesome this is exactly what we
need we're gonna move forward right now
if you can do that well god bless you
but the fact is if that was able to be
done you would need sales people you
would need like all of us you would need
the human experience and in fact when
you look at what business is it's about
building trust
it's about exchanging ideas and if you
show up with a canned presentation like
you did in the early 2000s even with
your you know oh we have a branded
PowerPoint template with like a blue bar
at the top of the blue header in the
bottom that's like it's like an e-book
from the 90s so that doesn't work
anymore so this is a long answer I'm
sorry no no no it's really you know why
is conversational presenting so
important it's because
whole universe has changed people want
to want to engage with you when you
present I mean look at Facebook live you
know I see people go on Facebook live
and they do presentations right there
and people are interacting thrown aparts
and angry faces and whether you as a
presenter you just choose to read the
comments and interact is your choice but
you can see by the very nature of that
kind of technology that people are want
to interact with you want to have an
experience in that moment yeah so I kind
of spoke to kind of my process for
working with somebody you if as I recall
kind of work with typically mid or
smaller organizations you know five
thousand people are under and so when
you've got that subject matter expert or
that executive or somebody in front of
how are you walk us through a process
how are you working with them to get
them from what they think what you just
described is I call it info barf I'm
gonna show up and show up and throw up
right but how do you get them from there
to the place where they're comfortable
going oh yeah I can actually talk to
people like human beings yeah it
definitely is a process and it usually
starts where you take a look at whatever
they have is there their power point
right and these powerpoints these
prezi's even have evolved you know
they've evolved and they get bigger and
bigger and bigger they're not
seventy-two slides now they're 92 slides
now and so what these executives love is
a step back and let's like put the
PowerPoint aside and I start by really
asking a couple questions like describe
the typical interaction you have so
you're in a room with maybe it's virtual
over the web or maybe it's physical with
five people it's about 30 minutes long
what are the two three four five bases
that you really touch on in that
conversation presentation whatever
whether you're drawing on the board
whether you're showing PowerPoint
what are those bases that you touch that
by the end of touching all those bases
you know that you've touched everything
and they appreciate that question
because those bases
by the way are typically buried in that
92 slot PowerPoint but they forget about
that they forget about those important
bases because there's all this stuff so
that's the first step is really getting
them to acknowledge what those bases
aren't and the best presentations have
three bases you know beginning middle
and end who we are what we do how we can
help you past present future father son
Holy Ghost you name it the power of
three this is already an archetype of
how we think and present right Steve
Jobs use this all the time and that's
and that's science right that we know
that we know that three I think Steven
kosslyn and the since three or four but
but we know that science in terms of how
the brain works keep going yeah yeah so
that's it so I they appreciate this
process of getting them to distill their
basis and then it's like a five step
process I'm not gonna go through it now
but okay we take them through a process
of mind mapping and that which is
awesome it's like sneezing out all this
stuff and then we take them through a
process of storyboarding and weaving in
some art iple stories is it a rebirth
story is it a startup kind of story is
it a you know a comedy of integration of
all these possibilities so we try to
leave in a story that makes it more
interesting than just a solution pitch
and then we go to the design side which
are the details of how does it look what
words do you have on screen one of the
images and all those details are really
really important to do a couple things
one to help the presenters really stay
in their zone of presenting and help the
audience remember all those details so I
like to describe this as like a three a
Venn diagram with three parts I'll kind
of draw circles here in space yeah with
the topic in one circle you have the
presenter in another circle which is you
and you have the audience's interest in
this third circle and the beauty of this
triad is the zone is in the center
that's if you can stay there which is
your kind of their shoulder to shoulder
with your audience talking about the
topic facilitating a discussion about
their goals maybe and what
they're trying to achieve around the
topic the challenges that's the zone to
stay in and you have to do that
conversationally and you don't know
their interest unless you ask so let me
ask you this inevitably that subject
matter expert or that that executive has
more content than they have time to
cover right yeah let alone if they allow
some space for dialogue right so if you
if they've got twenty minutes or two
hours regardless of what their
presentation time is and they're gonna
allow a little space for that dialogue
or conversation that means there's even
less room for all that content how do
you help them kind of overcome this I
got a info bar for out more information
it's really a mindset and if you come to
this conversation or presentation with a
mindset that that your presentation is
more important than your audience's
interest then you're you're screwed that
is a great way to put it
say that again you're in if you think
information on the presentation thinking
if I come to this presentation thinking
that my presentation just wait you gotta
hear it my presentation is important and
your interest in this topic or in this
then I'm screwed I messed up and the
reason why I messed up is because in
order to deliver a conversational
presentation you have to honor their
interest more than what you're prepared
to talk about because if you don't you
won't value those moments where you may
need to turn left or turn right or to
include or to exclude you won't know
that if you come with your guns blazing
without acknowledging what the target is
yeah I know one of the things that I've
heard you mentioned before is just the
topic of trust and it sounds actually
like a good segue because we know it
relationally in other relationships like
me and my significant other if I do all
the talking and I'm not doing any of the
listening stir circle she either starts
to turn it to now tour and Trust starts
to erode just curious why is try
such a hot topic for you and how do you
you what people what mistakes do people
make when that erode trust in
presentations as far as you're concerned
yeah Trust is basically everything you
won't get a customer to work with you
unless they trust you and so it is
everything and it is the reason why
you're there is to establish that trust
to foster that trust and you know you
hear this like the number one reason why
interviews a buyer who just bought a two
million dollar solution
so tell me Bob Bob why did you just buy
this two million dollar solution from
vendor B instead of vendor a through C
or a through F and Bob will tell you
hands down nine out of ten times that we
felt that this vendor really listened to
us this vendor understood us and was
able to meet our needs better than the
other vendor but it starts with
understanding and yeah basically
understanding and so I don't know if
I've answered your question there but
well so let's talk about types of
presentation since I mean personally I
love that topic and I think you've got
some additional insight that we haven't
even fully mind when you think about
different purposes of presentations for
people like like when you're helping
them do something that's designed for a
sales pitch versus a maybe a pitch like
I start up trying to get money pitch
delay it for me what are there a couple
two or three or four types of
presentations you spend most of your
time working on and what are some subtle
differences that people should be aware
of um well we do a lot of investor decks
investor pitches and those are different
only in that they have to touch about
nine bases for them to be complete sales
presentations really typically only need
three bases you know the problem the the
impact of that problem and how we're
gonna help you for example we'll start a
pitch you know they only need to know
market competition
other things so it has more pieces too
and I think that's typically what we see
in terms of structure but the other
elements are the same the storyboarding
what is it a story about how you're
designing the presentation so that you
you have a conversation during it before
but in both cases designing the
presentations so you're starting out
with a question like you know here's the
this problem you know what would what's
at risk for you about this or what would
you what are you hoping to accomplish
around this or this is an investment
opportunity you know what what is
important to you about finding the right
investment opportunity and I think while
investors some investors like to be you
know cars to chest just send me the deck
I'll make the decision yeah some
investors actually like to get pitched
you know not talking about shark a shark
tank you're right but they do then they
definitely want to be included in in
that as a conversation yeah yeah my
experience is people don't want to they
want to hold their cards to your chest
like you said I've always thought wait a
minute if we're really connecting and
this is the right thing
you're not exposing you're not weakening
your position or exposing yourself if
you share with me what's important to
you okay so yeah what one I think one
final thing comes to mind here is I'm
yeah I'm thinking through these I know
we're kind of hitting in some different
different spots but when we're talking
about slides that compliment the speaker
right you you just got done talking
about hey yeah sometimes there are some
investors out there who just say send me
the deck and yet even earlier you said
well if you could just send the perfect
deck why do you need to make the
in-person or live presentation right
yeah when it comes to decks and speakers
doing speaking right and this kind of
the one of the messy things about the
word presentation right sometimes it
means the act of presenting live and
sometimes it means the PowerPoint or
what at Prezi or whatever you're using
right yeah tell me how how you think of
those things as either complementing
each other or or what's happening when
they're not complementing each other
yeah it's like Eskimos
eight words for snow because they live
in the snow all day it's the wet snow
fluffy snow yeah like you know I'm
coming up with like eight words for
presentation because it means so many
different you know meanings of that but
I think there's no right now there's no
trick around it it's really just when
you say you want to create a
presentation tell me what you mean what
are you trying to create what's your
objective of this presentation oh don't
you know we're just trying to create
something that engages people well what
do you mean
oh we just want to be able to like to
send people something and they love it
and they buy oh okay right so that
that's one animal and I find that those
type of presentation buyers we're really
just looking for great graphic design
and that's awesome but that's not what I
call a presentation that's creating a
really engaging ebook or maybe that's
creating a great landing page on your
website you know you'll need a web
designer to help create an engaging
landing page that like Apple does this
beautifully for their products we have
this landing page they're a mile long
and you just scroll and you enjoy it's a
essentially a presentation of an iPhone
10 and that's great
and maybe an apples case B since its b2c
you know they don't need to do
presentations but b2b typically when
some business is about to point down a
half a million dollars or $250,000 they
don't just do it from looking at a
landing page I'm sure if you think that
as well yeah all right so being
conscious of our are listening after
viewers time here let me let me ask you
one final question which is what what is
it that we could say you and I could say
here a couple gunslingers going you know
having a coffee shop conversation that
somebody's somebody's listening over you
know kind of listening in on what's
something that we could say now that we
would never say to a potential client
that just makes you want to go that
if you're gonna do that that sucks what
what is it that just makes you makes you
kind of I roll inside of your head
and you go oh my gosh is just out of
curiosity is there it's just there this
massive mistake or thing that just makes
you roll your eyes most well there's two
things there's one like if I'm not
dealing with the CEO for not dealing
with the owner of the message house
we're dealing with people who just want
to make other people happy and they
don't know what their bosses want and
they're guessing and that's always
difficult because then they think that
the presentation needs to look like
other presentations instead of owning
their own message and their own visual
in their own story so that's like you
know that's that sucks
another like that sucks is when people
want to have presentations with all the
words on the screen because they're
afraid if they're gonna forget that of
what to present and they want the words
on the screen to be that crutch and
that's difficult when people are in that
sort of nervous state but we usually get
them off of that state just know that's
a sucky period yes by basically having
them present with all the words there
but after they present once you can take
the words off in the picture that's left
is the trigger picture that allows them
to remember anyway what they were gonna
say on that slide and the fact they
realized then that they can say it a lot
easier because they're not tripped up by
the words that are on the screen anyway
so that's more of a process people
getting comfortable with presenting yeah
thank so yes I'm not sure if that if
that will help people here but well no
actually I think it does and I'll share
with you because because here's how you
and I could talk about that but you know
we would never quite say that directly
to a client right well but but the
reason you and I have that guttural
reaction is because our core we want to
help somebody we want to help somebody
rock what they're doing right and
whether they think they're gonna use the
same in webinars right web people you
want to use the webinar as a
teleprompter so instead of looking at
the camera right here I'm looking down
here at my slides and you're looking at
my forehead
and and or the science of how cognitive
as an ass yeah well yeah what's the word
I'm looking for cognitive load increases
when somebody's trying to read at the
same time you're speaking you've got
these two disparate things happening
right and so there's a we know why and
how we need to help people get from what
point A to point B I know for me that
same kind of sucks thing happens when
either they're reading the slides or
they actually literally want to read a
script in webinars right it's yeah
because yes all the time yeah and and
you just want to go you know what that
that's not human
and by the way unless you are a
professional voice talent people can
tell when you're reading and so that
even sucks worse right because now
you're not only gonna suck but people
are gonna know you suck even worse and I
just want to help people and and I think
for me and I and I'll leave this final
thought with you I think for me one of
the core things is I actually believe
that most people could actually really
Rock their presentations you don't have
to be Steve Jobs all you need to do is
be you and and talk about what you
already have in your heart and in your
head and and you're already set up to do
that and I think this has been a great
few minutes with you any final closing
thoughts here as we kind of get towards
the end here that's last lot there I
mean that's like on the money you know
we talked about trust before people
don't want to trust a charlatan they
don't want to trust someone who's a
great public speaker they just want to
trust you because you're you know maybe
boring or maybe just that's who you are
and and that's that's where the trust
comes from just being yourself and so I
think my advice to people is that the
good news is they don't have to learn
very much about presenting they just
have to structure their presentations in
a way it allows them to be themselves
yeah Greg is so appreciate a little bit
of conversation here if people need to
get in touch with you how do they find
you yeah well pitch kitchen comm is our
agency and that we're growing here based
out of New York and you can reach us
there awesome
Roger here at event builder event
builder dot rocks and you know what it's
been a wonderful time I think we should
do this again awesome
take character goodbye everybody take


Topics: Expert Interviews, Presentation Design, Presentation Planning, Storytelling

Roger Courville

About Roger Courville

Chief Aha! Guy | Good dad | Bad guitarist | Loves habaneros |

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